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Canon/Theory Questions

After a short discussion with ladytonks last night and a further type chat with pan_alchemist this morning, I have some questions for discussion.

ladytonks was wondering about the importance of Magical Creatures in the last book, and mentioned specifically the bowtruckles which have appeared an awful lot in the books, and the fact that they are found in wand trees. She thought that this might be of importance as Ollivander is gone.

This led to a discussion about Ollivander with wandrin_dreamer and about the way he “left” Diagon Alley. (We both seemed to thing that he left of his own accord, rather than waiting around for the Death Eaters to come after him.) And that discussion led to these questions:

Does Voldemort know that his wand shares a core with Harry’s? Is the Priori Incantatum effect common knowledge? We know that the spell itself is used by the Ministry officials at the World Cup, but is the fact that this happens with “brother wands” known to most wizards?

Does Voldemort know that the wand cores are from Fawkes’ tail feathers for his own wand and Harry’s? Would Ollivander have been a target because of this knowledge and would Dumbledore have warned him that Voldemort might come looking for him?

Just some thoughts up for discussion :D

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( 13 comments — Leave a comment )
maple_mahogany
May. 21st, 2006 09:33 pm (UTC)
I've learned my lesson enough not to try to make predictions about JKR's work. She always surprises me and always knows best. (unless she kills Ron or Harry, then I won't acknowledge it)

I will say that I think Ollivander's dissapearance will be significant in the development of the story in Book 7.
browneydweasley
May. 21st, 2006 09:47 pm (UTC)
Hmm...interesting to think you two shared the idea that Ollivander left of his own accord. Somehow I got the feeling he left under suspicious circumstances. Was he just afraid, perphaps being blackmailed, under the Imperious, or in cahoots with the Death Eaters all along? I think my impression may come from the way John Hurt portrayed him in the movie version of SS, but I'm in total agreement that there's definitley going to be more of this story!
ladytory
May. 21st, 2006 10:12 pm (UTC)
I think that he was on Dumbledore's side or else he would not have written to Dumbledore to inform him that Harry had the second of Fawkes' wands.

And the fact that his shop is left intact in contrast to Fortescue's seems to me an indication that he was not forced out.
tunxeh
May. 21st, 2006 11:10 pm (UTC)
I'm pretty sure Ollivander's disappearance is connected to the fancy wand in the window display (in the first book), which I think must have been Ravenclaw's.
ladytory
May. 21st, 2006 11:55 pm (UTC)
Oooooooo

That makes for a very interesting theory.

I like it!
pan_alchemist
May. 22nd, 2006 05:46 am (UTC)
Never thought of that before!

But, returning to the first idea made by browneydweasley, I never considered the Imperius before. I suppose it is possible, and would definitely account for the fact that his shop was not wrecked.

Another thought: If Ollivander is under the Imperius Curse, then LV will might be using him for a lot more than a quick explination. Maybe he wants another wand, one that is made personally for him. Just a thought...
el_angelina
May. 21st, 2006 09:55 pm (UTC)
RE: Does Voldemort know that his wand shares a core with Harry’s? Is the Priori Incantatum effect common knowledge? We know that the spell itself is used by the Ministry officials at the World Cup, but is the fact that this happens with “brother wands” known to most wizards?

I think he does now, somehow... although the result of what happened when the "brother wands", as you put, is called "Priori Incantatum" by Dumbledore, and indeed that´s what seems to have happened...

a) it happened to Voldemort´s wand only --> why didn´t Harry´s latest spells come spilling out too?

b) neither Harry nor Voldemort cast the Priori Incantatum spell - and I don´t see how a combination of Avada Kedavra and Expelliarmus could have led to that except for that fact that the wands refused to fight against each other or something of the kind. Consequently, that Priori Incantatem is quite different from the one that the Ministry uses.

I agree that Ollivander must have fled because Voldemort would seek him out in order to find out how to avoid that happening again or something...
ladytory
May. 21st, 2006 10:09 pm (UTC)
Voldemort's wand regurgitated spells becasue Harry forced the "bead of light" back along the connection until it made contact with Voldemort's wand and that is when the spells came out.

And Dumbledore explains the effect "when a wand meets its brother" as being "very rare" Gof Chapter 36 and that "one of the wands will force the other to regurgitate spells it has performed."
handlet
May. 21st, 2006 10:15 pm (UTC)
I'm quite attached to the possibility that Ollivander left of his own accord. He always seemed so wise and mysterious, and I don't like the idea of someone getting the better of him.

However, I hadn't seriously thought about why Ollivander would have left. I think it's a pretty good theory that he's hiding from Voldemort over the brother wand issue. It doesn't seem like that Priori Incantatum effect is common knowledge, considering that Voldemort seemed as confused as Harry when they dueled in GoF. So in order to figure out what had happened I could definitely see Voldemort going after the maker of both of the wands.
ladytory
May. 21st, 2006 10:19 pm (UTC)
In rereading I just noticed that Sirius was unaware of the consequences as well, as he is the one that asks the question. I don't know if he is a good measure for the majority of wizardkind, but still.

There is also the fact that Tom Riddle (horcrux #1) is not happy at all to see Dumbledore's Bird in the Chamber of Secrets which I always thought was ironic as it was the creature that supplied the core of his wand.
tunxeh
May. 21st, 2006 11:09 pm (UTC)
I don't know whether Priori Incantatem is well known, but I have to assume Voldemort knows about it by know, and understands what it implies about his and Harry's wands being brothers — he's a very knowledgeable wizard, and if he didn't understand something like that I'd expect him to make it his business to find out, as he found out about how Lily's charm defeated him before. He's not going to get fooled the same way twice, I think.
masterofmystery
May. 21st, 2006 11:10 pm (UTC)
I think that after the PI event at the end of GoF, even if Voldemort didn't know about him and Harry having the same wand cores, he definitely would have looked it up. I mean, he found out stuff about Horcruxes, which is far more of an obscure topic than Priori Incantatem is, so I imagine Voldemort did a bit of researching to figure it out (maybe he got a few books from Malfoy manor?). I think that by now he definitely knows, he's not stupid enough not to figure it out.

Dunno if Voldemort knows if it's Fawkes' tail feather, but of course he knows it's a phoenix's. If he did kidnap Ollivander, surely he could just tell Voldemort about it, which would just put Voldemort in the advantage. I think that being the best wand-maker around makes you susceptible to being nicked because that's a pretty big power to hold.
mizufae
May. 22nd, 2006 06:59 pm (UTC)
while the idea that bowtruckles will come into great importance in book 7 is very interesting, i get the feeling that bowtruckles are to harry potter as spoo is to babylon 5.

mmm, spoo.
( 13 comments — Leave a comment )